Through London train service Sevenoaks to Bedford via Nunhead under threat

Discussion in 'Nunhead' started by Cllr Renata Hamvas, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. Cllr Renata Hamvas

    Cllr Renata Hamvas South East Crusader

    A new franchise will bring together services currently operated by: First Capital Connect (FCC), including Wimbledon Loop services; Southern, including metro services, and some Southeastern services, including routes serving stations in Southwark. The franchise will be operational from 2013 (FCC services) and be expanded to include all Southern services in 2015 (to coincide with the start of major works at London Bridge). Some Southeastern services will transfer in 2014 and others yet to be specified on completion of the Thameslink programme in 2018.

    The current consultation seeks views on how the new franchise should be specified i.e. what services and train frequencies should be delivered on which routes within the franchise area. The resulting specification will be used as part of the DfT’s procurement process to appoint a new operator, based on their ability to deliver the required services in an effective and efficient manner. Responses to the consultation must be returned to the DfT by the 23rd of August 2012. The consultation document is available on the DfT's website at the link below:

    I am very concerned as it appears that the line via Denmark Hill, Peckham Rye and Nunnhead is in direct competition with the Wimbledon Loop. One of the these services is likely to get cut and no longer run past Blackfriars northbound. Please fill out the consultation documents.

  2. EdHammond

    EdHammond South Eastern Guru

    I understand that a working group has been convened at DfT to see how they can make it as difficult as possible for people from Nunhead to get the train to anywhere useful - with this and the Victoria mess, I'm glad to see their work is already bearing fruit.
  3. SGSE15

    SGSE15 Regular

    It annoys me that stations like Wimbledon, which has numerous regular routes into London, gets priority while Nunhead gets (once again) ignored as a commuter route. Is there anything we should be doing to vocalise our concerns? Do we need to email with our concerns?
  4. Contrarian

    Contrarian Proper Local

    Wimbledon: population, 90,000. Nunhead: population, 11,000
  5. SGSE15

    SGSE15 Regular

    Fair enough but my point wasn't that we should have an equal service to Wimbledon, I am just frustrated that Nunhead has eratic train service as it is, we always seem to be the last consideration when it comes to transport planning. They have reduced the Victoria route and now potentially halting the northbound route from Blackfriars, it's a shame we are so overlooked and that larger stations are automatically given priority (although appreciate that relatively we are small fry verses the number of commuters who use Wimbledon).
  6. CrewysBen

    CrewysBen Local

    Thanks Renata,

    Let's all share this with our local friends across the area and make sure we gets as many responses as possible for this. I note that there is already a public meeting being arranged in Wimbledon to rally support - led by the local lib dems down there I understand.

    Renata, as this affects Nunhead, Peckham and Denmark Hill - will councillors be leading the charge on this? Is there perhaps a chance to have a public meeting at somewhere like the Old Waiting Room at Peckham Rye station? Will Barrie Hargrave be taking this up under his cabinet remit as well?

    Is there anything beyond this that local residents can do to support efforts? petitions perhaps?


    Kate-moving likes this.
  7. CrewysBen

    CrewysBen Local

    Hi Renata, I see that LB Southwark is a statutory consultee for this. Do you know if the council has submitted its response yet and are you able to share what it is?
  8. pembroke pete

    pembroke pete Fountain of Southern Knowledge

    I know that they are consulting on this, but I would be very surprised if they don't terminate the wimbledon loop services ... as the document says, the trains that run from nunhead arrive at the "right side" of blackfriars to go through the core, and the wimbledon ones don't - the more important bit from this consultation is making sure that the victoria trains run later in the evening, and either they or the blackfriars ones go up to 4 trains per hour, so that we have at least one service that is every 15 mins
  9. Michael_FH

    Michael_FH Lives for South East London

    There appears to be a strategy to run all Thameslink trains fast across South East London to get out to Kent, Sussex, and Surrey as quickly as possible. There is some logic to this plan as we will still have an option to change at Blackfriars (or at London Bridge for commuters on the Sydenham corridor).

    But this seems like a disappointing disconnection of South East London from the improvements brought about by Thameslink (and Crossrail). Instead London are treated as less important than our colleagues from outside the capital. It is noticeable that the same rules are not applied in North London, with plenty of Thameslink trains stopping at Hendon and West Hampstead to provide direct services for our friends North of the river to go straight through to Croydon without having to stop once after London Bridge.

    The quadrant of London with no Underground, and is more reliant of trains will not get the connections we deserve. But I don't believe the 'consultation' will make any difference to the planned routes. This is a 'consultation' for the rail industry, not for passengers.
    antantant likes this.
  10. CrewysBen

    CrewysBen Local

  11. Kate-moving

    Kate-moving Local

    Like some of the others on this thread have already mentioned perhaps the Peckham, Nunhead, Crofton Park and Catford councillors could discuss forming a pressure group and organise some way of having a combined voice on this. The change being suggested would be hugely detrimental to all those areas and in some cases will leave people with incredibly long and difficult journeys to work, particularly given that the East London line is already at capacity.
  12. rbmartin

    rbmartin Regular

  13. pembroke pete

    pembroke pete Fountain of Southern Knowledge

    hmm that is not great is it - only two trains per hour at nunhead - I was hoping we would get four!
  14. rbmartin

    rbmartin Regular

    That's if that diagram is the one they finally use. Another member on EDF claims to attend the Southeastern stakeholder meetings and he thinks they'll have 4 trains for Nunhead, Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill. Add the Victoria to Dartford trains and that's 6 trains per hour (except late evenings and Sundays).

    However, consider that Boris has gone to the DfT in an attempt to gain the Metro side of Southeastern for the London Overground network when their franchise is up. This would affect Southeastern services which are not served by Thameslink, which could lead to improvements to the Victoria service.
  15. Audi5

    Audi5 Respected Local

    Is this in the hands of the DfT? I'm hoping enough people voice their opinions since 1.012 million* entries/exits were recorded at Nunhead station last year, a figure that has risen year on year since 2006. With a severe lack of real alternatives South East London needs and quite frankly deserves better rail services. With this in mind I am hoping that all our local councillors and MPs are doing their bit to lobby the relevant department to ensure we do get better and decent train services that are fit for purpose in our lifetime. I have already emailed the DfT on its consultation regarding franchise renewal. If I need to email another dept then please inform us on who to contact and how?

    *source station usage/Office of rail reg, figure given is an estimate
  16. essexpdp

    essexpdp Member

    What a bummer! One of the reasons I moved to the area was easy access to work in Farringdon. BUT... one thing which I've since found out is good about the area is the community pulling together for the right reasons, and lobbying the decision makers, as was the case with the Ivydale Road motorcross jumps which have now been removed. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
  17. Audi5

    Audi5 Respected Local

    Below are the response I have received to my emails regarding the consultations of the mentioned franchise renewals. I sincely hope they really do take on board what us the users say and we want from the rail service. I just hope enough people make enough noise for them to sit up and listen.

    Thank you very much for responding to the TSGN consultation.

    We are analysing your comments, which we will consider along with the other responses we have received. We will then form our conclusions on the overall response, which will inform our preparation of the Invitation to Tender for this franchise. We publish a summary of the outcome of the consultation process in the Stakeholder Briefing Document, which will be issued at the same time as the Invitation to Tender.

    John MacQuarrie
    Franchise Sponsor
    Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern Franchise

    Thank you for your response to the South Eastern Franchise Consultation. Your views have been registered and will form part of a report summarising responses and the Department’s conclusions. It will be a key document for franchise bidders to consider and will also be published on the Department’s website.


    South Eastern Franchise Replacement Sponsor
    Department for Transport
  18. Cllr Renata Hamvas

    Cllr Renata Hamvas South East Crusader

    Hi CrewysBen and others, I have emailed and spoken to Cllr Barrie Hargrove about this. Southwark haven't yet put in their response yet.
  19. Gerri

    Gerri Respected Local

    Renata, thanks for posting the link to the consultation document, and good to know that you are talking to other councillors about this.
    We need to make sure that Nunhead doesn't lose out. As other people have already mentioned, one of the considerations for many of us in moving here was the connections. I for one use the train to St Pancras a huge amount as my head office is in Brussels. It would be a nightmare to lose this. Or even for it to be reduced significantly.
    Typical of such documents, I found this one pretty impenetrable. Hard to know where to find the relevant information and how to respond. @edhammond, I hate to ask, but as you are skilled in the art of local government speak, would it be possible for you to draft a robust comment that you could post here, and that users of this forum could use as a basis for response to the consultation?
  20. eileen

    eileen Lives for South East London

    This is a post in haste. Some one mentioned in a post (can’t find it now), the possibility of a public meeting about this important matter, and mentioned the Old Waiting Room. It isn’t available for such things yet (inaccessible except through station and stairs). But it so happens that we have an exhibition there with a special license about the town centre 2-4 August which is a very rare chance to get into the room. See details here and also my post on the exhibition in the Peckham Forum.

    We do have a semi public meeting in the exhibition with talks about the exhibition material on 2 August at 7pm where points about the rail services and their local importance will be relevant but not just about that. I do encourage anyone concerned about the rail services come to that meeting and raise the point in the disucssion. It is also available for people to meet and discuss these matters in the exhibition. We will be covering rail services issues in the exhibition as they are critical to the functioning of Peckham town centre.

    SRUG has been preparing for these franchise consultations for two years but unfortunately when they happened those of us including me, who could take it up and run with it, have been totally involved in other things. I hope after the exhibition we can send something out to encourage more consultation comments with references to the official document.

    But some key points seem to be being covered in the various posts.

    Some immediate thoughts (without having studied the consultation doc yet)

    * we were always led to believe by the rail companies that the Sevenoaks to St Pancras through service would be made permanent in this franchise because of the way the new tracks at Blackfriars make it easier to manage than the Wimbledon Loop getting that service. Now though it appears as if the consultation may subtly be asking which service should get them - ours or theirs, though I can’t be certain until I study the doc.

    * We have been saying to the rail industry for some time that what we need for our stations (including Nunhead) is 7 days a week, early am to late pm, 4tph direct to Victoria, 4tph to St Pancras, and for Peckham Rye also 6 tph to London Bridge.

    * it is important for as many users as possible to make their points about why direct connections to central London stations is crucial and make it personal about how they use the services.

    * Getting a letter into the local papers SLP and Southwark News is also good. Email them a copy of your consultation response, edited to make it short and no personal details. We have to show there is deep local concern over all this and need to get that message out in public so the Dept for Transport can see it.

    * if you use Facebook or twitter get your point out in that as well.

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