No 24 hour Tube - Crossrail to stop running at 12.30

Discussion in 'Public Transport' started by nunheader, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. nunheader

    nunheader South East Crusader

    I stumbled across a very interesting write up on the From The Murky Depths blog, who has found a service document that reveals that Crossrail will stop running at half past midnight.

    This is a joke when London wants to be seen as a forward looking progressive world class city!

    As the blog explains, you can kind of expect it from old lines that have very good technical and operation reasons for not operating a 24 hour service like they do in some international cities such as New York.

    Pah, TfL!
     
  2. Monkeyboy

    Monkeyboy South East Crusader

    May be something to do with the rest of the network shutting down? And the cost vs revenue of running at that time of night?
     
  3. EdHammond

    EdHammond South Eastern Guru

    They'd have had to construct the central core as a four track section (which could have allowed for express and stopping services, as they have in NYC) but that would clearly have required more foresight by politicians. And, of course, money.

    Shame though - would have been incredibly useful (and well-used, I bet). Hopefully the lessons will be learned for Crossrail line 2...?
     
  4. nunheader

    nunheader South East Crusader

    Crossrail line 2?!
     
  5. EdHammond

    EdHammond South Eastern Guru

    Used to be called the Chelsea-Hackney line (it was originally going to be a Tube line - light green on the map for those who are interested) - the current safeguarded central London core route is, I think, between Victoria and Hackney, via Picadilly Circus, Tottenham Court Road, King's Cross and Angel. When planned as a Tube line it would have taken over a bit of the District line at its southern end and a bit of the central line at its eastern end, but I'm not sure how current these plans are now. The refurbishment of TCR is being done to allow it to be "slotted in" at a later date (TCR will be the Crossrail 1 and Crossrail 2 interchange station) - when Angel station was rebuilt in the early 90s it was also built to allow the new line to be constructed around it easily.

    It's been planned in various forms for years and years! If it does eventually get built it won't be before about 2035.
     
  6. Rational Plan

    Rational Plan Member

    Current thinking is towards a line from Wimbledon (at least, taking over the Epsom lines and Kingston Loop) towards Clapham Junction, Victoria, missing Piccadilly station then onto Tottenham Court Road, since these are 12 carriage stations the Southern end of the station will be Shaftesbury Avenue anyway, Then it will probably have a joint station for Euston and St Pancras and then NE taking over the West Anglia Lines. Some of those stations planned for Hackney on the old plan will dropped.

    No firm plans but, even after 10 car expansion the Waterloo tracks and platforms will be full by 2030. With High Speed 2 arriving in 2026 and stage 2 by 2032 crossrail 2 will be needed by then.
     
  7. EdHammond

    EdHammond South Eastern Guru

    Cheers @Rational Plan, that's extremely interesting. Good to hear that a Clapham Junction station is planned. How will they get onto the WA lines at King's Cross? I thought that the plan was that the WA lines were going to be drawn into the Thameslink franchise (although no reason why they can't be disaggregated in the future)
     
  8. Stuart

    Stuart South East Crusader

    AKA the Chelney line - going southwest to northeast. What does this have in common with Crossrail 1, High Speed 1 & 2, the Northern Line extension to Battersea, etc etc...?

    None of them go anywhere near the back of beyond AKA South East London of course!

    London's rail network is built means going to the other side of the city from where you live is a bit of a pain, especially if you live in our Neglected Quarter otherwise known as South East London. If someone living in an SE postcode area other than the central SE1 zone wants to go north by northwest, for an event at Wembley Stadium lets say, it's a bloody long trip and several interchanges. You're talking an hour and a half and that's on a good day.
     
  9. Nick Barron

    Nick Barron Admin Staff Member

    Crossrail 1 does go to South East London: Woolwich and Abbey Wood. Also, the trip to Wembley from Brockley is pretty easy. East London Line > Canada Water (8 mins) and then Jubilee straight to Wembley if you're lazy or change at Baker Street to shorten the journey if you want to get there asap. Very simple and quite quick. Did it for The FA Cup Final in less than an hour, which isn't that different to when I had to get to Wembley from Soho for work purposes.
     
  10. Nick Barron

    Nick Barron Admin Staff Member

    Which isn't to say that I wouldn't like more for SE London, but the ELL, Jubilee Line extension and the DLR have been major boosts for anyone living in this part of SE London.
     
  11. EdHammond

    EdHammond South Eastern Guru

    My girlfriend (now wife) used to live in Tulse Hill and I lived in West Hampstead. If it hadn't been for Thameslink we'd probably have split up.

    So, bizarrely, I owe my marriage to Thameslink.
     
    Owen likes this.
  12. DKZ

    DKZ South East Crusader

    Take a look at this geographically accurate map of the London lines and what is the gaping big hole in the South West between Strawberry Hill and Wimbledon which isn't served by anything at all? Perhaps we're not too hard done by after all...
     
  13. Rational Plan

    Rational Plan Member

    That's Richmond Park and Wimbledon common. Suburban South and South Eastern has a good rail service, it's the inner part in Zone 1 and 2 that could do with some tube lines
     
  14. DKZ

    DKZ South East Crusader

    Am I right in thinking that, because Euston has been slotted in because the creaking old Tube can't cope with all the passengers disembarking from Hs2, there are plans for a new safeguarding of the route that would see King's Road station dropped because it's going to Clapham Junction via Imperial Wharf instead of taking over the District Line to Wimbledon?

    Likewise, instead of taking over the Central Line to Epping it's going to Stansted via Tottenham Hale instead of some of the Hackney stations?
     
  15. Stuart

    Stuart South East Crusader

    King's Road and Hackney dropped? Er, I think the reason it was originally dubbed the Chelney line was because it was going from Chelsea to Hackney. Now it looks like it may not. Um.... :confused:
     
  16. Rational Plan

    Rational Plan Member

    Well it all depends on who wins the argument. TFL seem to be leaning back towards a tube line thats wholly in London to solve it's tube congestion issues and Network rail want a crossrail line to solve it's congestion issues. If the tube is substantially cheaper then it could go that way, if a crossrail line is not much more than the wider area the line would cover means greater political support for a crossrail line.
     
  17. EdHammond

    EdHammond South Eastern Guru

    Long-term, a new crossrail line is the only option, surely?

    Thinking about strategic opportunities for TfL as much as anything else - the Oyster empire is quietly expanding and TfL's influence over commuter rail is extending way beyond the M25. Crossrail 2 will give them an opportunity to take that further - and take the pressure off central London hubs like King's Cross which are currently beset by thousands of people detraining (not quite the right word in this context I know) onto the tube in the peak. Crossrail 2 would (arguably) relieve a lot of this pressure at a stroke.
     
  18. sdp

    sdp Lives for South East London

    London's bursting Tube network and obvious advantages of Crossrail will dictate that CR2 will also be the larger mainline tunnels spanning more than just zones 1-5 and that the original Chelney idea is now way out of date.

    And Clapham Junction? Well Crossrail 2 obviously should go via there as nobody is ever going to change at Wimbledon for a slow round the houses crossrail train via Putney and Chelsea! Best leave Chelsea to a possible extension of the Northern Line after Battersea. Heck, if Battersea Power Station was successful enough, it could have a station on Crossrail 2 between CJ and Victoria!
     
  19. J-R

    J-R Member

    Just think, if Crossrail 2 was officially titled the Hacksea Line, they could use a nice dirt brown colour to represent it on the map, as it rhymes with Jacksy.

    Oh, the Bakerpoo slipped in there first. :p
     
  20. Compare this old LU map from the 1920's to a geographic version of a contemporary one nearly 90 years later and things have changed for the better.
    It's quite astonishing to see how the transport system emphasised just how terribly West-centric London used to be:
    View attachment 368
    geomap.jpg
     

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